I have often considered the wholesale legalization of drugs. However, the thing I can’t get past is who distributes them? Do we license manufacturers and distributors? Based on our experiences with prescription opioids, the drug companies can’t be trusted with this kind of power over addicts lives. Does the government distribute it? I certainly don’t want to give the government that kind of power over people’s lives. It is less trustworthy than the pharmaceutical companies. Plus, there will have to be some regulations on what can be manufactured and sold. What happens to things that are not legal? Do they continue on the black market? I am not opposed to legalizing drugs, but before we do we need to answer these and other questions. Thanks for helping to move the discussion forward.
Excellent. William F Buckley (someone I disagree with 95% of the time) intelligently made the point that it's not illegal to contract syphilis, but that doesn't mean society encourages contracting syphilis: criminalization is not the only tool to counteract out-of-control behavior. Criminalization is, in fact, the worst tool available, as it is always accompanied by corruption and uneven, arbitrary enforcement.
I think a lot of people are frightened that they themselves would succumb to addiction were it not criminalized. This is a reflection of the poor state of how children are raised nowadays, taught to be obedient automatons rather than mature, self-directed adults. But this problem still does not justify criminalizing drugs, as doing so still results in far worse pathologies than making them legal would.
The law is the law. If we don’t like it then we advocate and argue for change. Drugs are, for the most part, a symptom of other issues. Just setting everyone free won’t solve those issues and may make things worse.
This story points out the unintended consequences of the war on drugs. I am open to a holistic approach that handles underlying causes and could legalize small amounts of hard drugs. Portugal’s approach has some merit it seems. California’s is a dumpster fire bereft of compassion and any morality beyond -- let’m die on the streets if they want, it’s there choice.
More people die from tobacco and alcohol than any other drugs, and we let them choose, and many choose to smoke and drink themselves to death. Choices have consequences. We do not need to add artificial consequences to already bad personal choices.
Addiction's broader consequences, on families, communities, individuals are terrible. This should not be an abstract conversation -- go talk to the victims of drug addiction. An ignored root cause is mental illness and simply letting people out of jail may feel good to some but it continues the vicious circle of addiction, crime, and misery.
Were the drug laws in effect when these horrible things happened? I thought the drug laws were supposed to prevent these things. Do they? Clearly not. I used to be addicted to coaine. The drug laws did not prevent me from becoming addicted.
Go talk to the victims of alcoholism. Tlk to kids who watched their drunk father beat up their mother then come after them. Talk to the loved ones of dead victims of drunk drivers. Does anybody suggest that outlawing alcohol is the answer? That was tried, and all it did was increae crime and make the Mafia rich. Just like drug laws do today. Mafia, cartels, same kind of people.
Talk to families who have watched their breadwinner waste away from lung cancer while consuming his life savings on futile medical bills. Talk to kids like myself who had only one grandparent instead of four because of the foul leaf. Talk to the family of an emphysema victim who is a constant burden amd expense to the family. Cigarettes kill more people than all other drugs put together. Should we ban that incredibly stupid, self-destructive practice as well?
I think people miss the point a lot of the time when it comes to drug prohibition or drug "liberation" for want of a better term. One has to look at the reasons why people choose to indulge in drug-taking in the first place. Something like alcohol is generally cultural and actually has health as the historic need (e.g. beer to purify water sources, red wine etc.) But, it's plain to see nowadays that people consume alcohol purely to be drunk, and thus it is like a drug when considered in that context.
The point, therefore, isn't whether alcohol should be legal or illegal; rather, we need to be asking: What has happened to the culture and morality of the people such that they all just want to consume substances to alter their state of mind?
Modernity has a lot to answer for in this regard. People's lives are ostensibly better, but only from a material point of view; modern man is spiritually bankrupt, and has no concept of anything higher than himself and the immediate satisfaction of his own needs and wants. One way of doing so is through drug use, evidently.
When morality is restored and people begin to follow God's law (or natural law) again, I'd expect you'd see a sharp downturn in the consumption of drugs - and this solves all the other problems connected thereto.
Actually the CIA is the world's largest (illegal) drug importer. They have the logistical infrastructure already in place along with the "get out of jail free" cards that none of us mere mundanes possesses. What better way to fund the "black projects" that they are so fond of perpetuating. This also keeps the hands of congress away from their budget.
So long as there are late baby boomers relegated to downward mobility & economic marginality raised very moralistically & seeing drugs as an at least initially enjoyable forbidden fruit consumed by people they deem socially inferior there will be plenty of support for an official war on drugs, the more expedient, brutal, peremptory & condign the better no matter the cost.
Gordon...Money doesn't mean happiness either...the loneliness of the ego vs the oneness of higher consciousness...crushed ego or extreme egotism? There is also the allure of altered states and for the defeated/depressed that may mean death.
I have seen all levels of the economic spectrum. I am now comfortably middle class. I have been a nearly homeless addict (last century), and I have enjoyed other people's wealth (lucky DNA). I have spent considerable time in the projects. I have been on yachts, gone skiing with billionaires, and seen a lot of the world. Stayed in 5-star hotels. Scuba dived off Maui. Had custom suits and monogrammed shirts made in Hong Kong (wish they still fit!)
My thoughts on money:
People for whom money is the top priority tend to be bigtime jerks, and unhappy.
I have known happy and miserable millionaires.
People who say they don't care about money are lying.
"Money can't buy happiness." Depends. Not having enough to pay basic expenses is very bad. Been there. Going from that state to just being able to get by made me very happy. Money over and above enough for food, clothing, and shelter may or may not buy happiness, depending on specifically how it's spent. Spending it on a gym membership as opposed to spending it on cigarettes, for example. Disease does not bring happiness. Health can, especially to someone who has been sick. Gates, Soros, Bezos, and Zuckerberg combined do not have enough to induce me to take the jab.
Nicotine hasn't been outlawed, but lots of laws have been made restricting its use. The result: Vaping was invented. This article makes one wonder, if nicotine were outlawed, what creative means entrepenuers would come up with to meet the demand that heavy smokers would create. Nicotine pills? IV nicotine?
Fascinating article. Strong journalism. Drug use is a symptom of other problems. Here's links to some other good reporting...
https://legal-forum.uchicago.edu/publication/would-%E2%80%9Chamsterdam%E2%80%9D-work-drug-depenalization-wire-and-real-life -- the last half gets into the specifics.
https://www.newportinstitute.com/resources/co-occurring-disorders/drug-legalization/
https://www.topteny.com/top-10-countries-drugs-legal/
And what happens when you go the California route? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/how-san-francisco-became-failed-city/661199/
Here's a good article on drug prohibition:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/01/doug-casey/the-war-on-some-drugs/
You made Zerohedge, congrats! Great article!
I have often considered the wholesale legalization of drugs. However, the thing I can’t get past is who distributes them? Do we license manufacturers and distributors? Based on our experiences with prescription opioids, the drug companies can’t be trusted with this kind of power over addicts lives. Does the government distribute it? I certainly don’t want to give the government that kind of power over people’s lives. It is less trustworthy than the pharmaceutical companies. Plus, there will have to be some regulations on what can be manufactured and sold. What happens to things that are not legal? Do they continue on the black market? I am not opposed to legalizing drugs, but before we do we need to answer these and other questions. Thanks for helping to move the discussion forward.
Treat them like tobacco and alcohol.
Excellent. William F Buckley (someone I disagree with 95% of the time) intelligently made the point that it's not illegal to contract syphilis, but that doesn't mean society encourages contracting syphilis: criminalization is not the only tool to counteract out-of-control behavior. Criminalization is, in fact, the worst tool available, as it is always accompanied by corruption and uneven, arbitrary enforcement.
I think a lot of people are frightened that they themselves would succumb to addiction were it not criminalized. This is a reflection of the poor state of how children are raised nowadays, taught to be obedient automatons rather than mature, self-directed adults. But this problem still does not justify criminalizing drugs, as doing so still results in far worse pathologies than making them legal would.
End the Drug War. Free its incarcerated victims, expunge their records, and compensate them.
"Free its incarcerated victims, expunge their records, and compensate them" How in God's name does that help in anyway?
By freeing people who committed no crimes from the burden of a criminal ecord.
The law is the law. If we don’t like it then we advocate and argue for change. Drugs are, for the most part, a symptom of other issues. Just setting everyone free won’t solve those issues and may make things worse.
This story points out the unintended consequences of the war on drugs. I am open to a holistic approach that handles underlying causes and could legalize small amounts of hard drugs. Portugal’s approach has some merit it seems. California’s is a dumpster fire bereft of compassion and any morality beyond -- let’m die on the streets if they want, it’s there choice.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/how-san-francisco-became-failed-city/661199/
More people die from tobacco and alcohol than any other drugs, and we let them choose, and many choose to smoke and drink themselves to death. Choices have consequences. We do not need to add artificial consequences to already bad personal choices.
Addiction's broader consequences, on families, communities, individuals are terrible. This should not be an abstract conversation -- go talk to the victims of drug addiction. An ignored root cause is mental illness and simply letting people out of jail may feel good to some but it continues the vicious circle of addiction, crime, and misery.
Watch this for evidence https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/the-2-minute-20-second-video-that?r=17itk0&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
"...go talk to the victims of drug addiction."
Were the drug laws in effect when these horrible things happened? I thought the drug laws were supposed to prevent these things. Do they? Clearly not. I used to be addicted to coaine. The drug laws did not prevent me from becoming addicted.
Go talk to the victims of alcoholism. Tlk to kids who watched their drunk father beat up their mother then come after them. Talk to the loved ones of dead victims of drunk drivers. Does anybody suggest that outlawing alcohol is the answer? That was tried, and all it did was increae crime and make the Mafia rich. Just like drug laws do today. Mafia, cartels, same kind of people.
Talk to families who have watched their breadwinner waste away from lung cancer while consuming his life savings on futile medical bills. Talk to kids like myself who had only one grandparent instead of four because of the foul leaf. Talk to the family of an emphysema victim who is a constant burden amd expense to the family. Cigarettes kill more people than all other drugs put together. Should we ban that incredibly stupid, self-destructive practice as well?
I think people miss the point a lot of the time when it comes to drug prohibition or drug "liberation" for want of a better term. One has to look at the reasons why people choose to indulge in drug-taking in the first place. Something like alcohol is generally cultural and actually has health as the historic need (e.g. beer to purify water sources, red wine etc.) But, it's plain to see nowadays that people consume alcohol purely to be drunk, and thus it is like a drug when considered in that context.
The point, therefore, isn't whether alcohol should be legal or illegal; rather, we need to be asking: What has happened to the culture and morality of the people such that they all just want to consume substances to alter their state of mind?
Modernity has a lot to answer for in this regard. People's lives are ostensibly better, but only from a material point of view; modern man is spiritually bankrupt, and has no concept of anything higher than himself and the immediate satisfaction of his own needs and wants. One way of doing so is through drug use, evidently.
When morality is restored and people begin to follow God's law (or natural law) again, I'd expect you'd see a sharp downturn in the consumption of drugs - and this solves all the other problems connected thereto.
History repeats itself! Remember what the 'Bloody Brits the Rothschild Clan' done to the people of China in the19th century? OPIUM WARS!
The DEA will never admit that their interdiction of the CIA's massive drug smuggling is zero.
Not while the Clintons are still alive.
.
Actually the CIA is the world's largest (illegal) drug importer. They have the logistical infrastructure already in place along with the "get out of jail free" cards that none of us mere mundanes possesses. What better way to fund the "black projects" that they are so fond of perpetuating. This also keeps the hands of congress away from their budget.
prove it.
So long as there are late baby boomers relegated to downward mobility & economic marginality raised very moralistically & seeing drugs as an at least initially enjoyable forbidden fruit consumed by people they deem socially inferior there will be plenty of support for an official war on drugs, the more expedient, brutal, peremptory & condign the better no matter the cost.
The lust for consciousness altering substances points to a foundational lack of happiness which relates to economic deprivation.
So why do so many rich and middle class people use drugs?
Gordon...Money doesn't mean happiness either...the loneliness of the ego vs the oneness of higher consciousness...crushed ego or extreme egotism? There is also the allure of altered states and for the defeated/depressed that may mean death.
I have seen all levels of the economic spectrum. I am now comfortably middle class. I have been a nearly homeless addict (last century), and I have enjoyed other people's wealth (lucky DNA). I have spent considerable time in the projects. I have been on yachts, gone skiing with billionaires, and seen a lot of the world. Stayed in 5-star hotels. Scuba dived off Maui. Had custom suits and monogrammed shirts made in Hong Kong (wish they still fit!)
My thoughts on money:
People for whom money is the top priority tend to be bigtime jerks, and unhappy.
I have known happy and miserable millionaires.
People who say they don't care about money are lying.
"Money can't buy happiness." Depends. Not having enough to pay basic expenses is very bad. Been there. Going from that state to just being able to get by made me very happy. Money over and above enough for food, clothing, and shelter may or may not buy happiness, depending on specifically how it's spent. Spending it on a gym membership as opposed to spending it on cigarettes, for example. Disease does not bring happiness. Health can, especially to someone who has been sick. Gates, Soros, Bezos, and Zuckerberg combined do not have enough to induce me to take the jab.
Nicotine hasn't been outlawed, but lots of laws have been made restricting its use. The result: Vaping was invented. This article makes one wonder, if nicotine were outlawed, what creative means entrepenuers would come up with to meet the demand that heavy smokers would create. Nicotine pills? IV nicotine?
The chart showing the increasing potencies of 5 different drugs is excellent. Makes the pattern very clear.
Families would take better care of their errant members without leaning on the prison bugaboo.