Secession is easy. I did it after Ron Paul ran for president . The only state involved is your state of mind. And sure I have to pay taxes but I work to minimalist them and I consider the taxes extortion by violent criminals.
And I defibetly would never vote in a federal election.
I believe that Congress and parties and campaign contributions should be eliminated. All State Legislatures should meet several times per year to pass Federal Legislation. Legislators seeking to engage the Nation in any war should be brought into Court for a capital offense. Current Federal Law should all be reconsidered by the new Legislature system.
It's my understanding that Jefferson Davis was a US Senator at the time the Southern states seceeded. Congress said that they would arrest any Congressman from those states. He stayed because he wanted to be arrested so he could take the issue before the court. They refused to arrest him. After the war he was arrested but they refused to bring him to trial. Again he wanted the issue of secession brought before the courts and he was never given the opportunity.
Great article. Overlooked is the movement in Oregon for the eastern part of the state to join Idaho. IMO stronger regional associations and less federal intervention is the way to go. Imagine if we were peace rather than war and corruption oriented what we could do with our resources!
It is well past time for peaceful secession! Don't get hoodwinked into firing a shot, like Lincoln did with the South, but fight it peacefully in the courts. The argument for secession is airtight: EVERYTHING the founders said and wrote during the ratification period supports the right of free and independent States to secede from their voluntary Union.
I would like to suggest a better poll (map) to cite. A better-ranked pollster asked the secession question in 5 different ways and the “peacefully secede” question was very revealing. It shows that a lot of people answer “no” to secession questions because they think it means firing on Ft. Sumter. But they’re happy to say YES to a “peacefully secede” question. This better pollster, SurveyUSA, polled each of 8 states separately, so they have a statistically significant number in each of the states, unlike YouGov. YouGov’s poll is not as good because they weight and balance across the whole country, so there could be too many Dems polled in Louisiana, for example.
Texas regular voters are 66% in favor of Texas independence, Louisiana 50% in favor of Louisiana independence, and only 7% of Americans think fedgov should attack a seceding state:
If it were a revolution it would have taken place in England. A revolt to dispose the government as in Russia, France and countless countries in South America.
To say revolution is like saying capitalism when you should say free enterprise.
Capitalism and revolution fit the liberal/socialist agenda. Why buy into it? You're either part of it or just ignorant.
The 13 colonies were part of the English territory and government system ruled by a monarch. You are seeing the 13 colonies as a separate nation. Not at that time. it was a revolution
Only thing settled with the 'war of northern aggression' was the a country of 30 million with unlimited recourses and material could crush a country of 10 million with extremely limited resources and materials.
Great article. Thank you. The words "sovereign" and independent" were used to describe the 13 colonies in the Paris Peace treaty with Great Britain, the sole superpower of that time. These terms were also used in the Articles of Confederation. They were never dismissed or replaced.
The 13 colonies were subjects to the British crown who remains the titular head of the Church of England, thereby deriving its power from God. They had no right to secede, yet they did.
The Confederacy was a union of American States whose denizens were citizens of the United States, who had all the rights to leave the Union as stated in the Declaration. This should never be forgotten.
.
I would say that one of the reasons why the founding fathers clearly stated that a state can leave the Union is to avoid a war since it is natural for the power of that union to resist separation by using force if necessary.
The American revolution was based on English law and the common law going back to the Magna Carta. If the words of the founding fathers are heeded a separation can be done legally avoiding the conflict that normally results from such acts
"The words 'sovereign' and 'independent' were used to describe the 13 colonies in the Paris Peace treaty with Great Britain, the sole superpower of that time."
Excellent point, Rohan. In one of the hyperlinked videos in the article, Tom Woods emphasizes this, saying, "When the British acknowledged the independence of the colonies, which were then states, it acknowledged not the independence of 'the United States' as a single blob, but as a group of states which they listed one by one." https://youtu.be/IXOEdvfMeIY?feature=shared&t=1324
thanks for e video. I am now looking at it. Glad to know that the Paris Peace treaty is an issue. I discovered this by reading the treaty while debating a commenter over the civil war.
Thank you. England was the superpower and its recognition of the states as "sovereign" was reflected in the Articles of Confederation. The meaning of "sovereign" was never challenged or dismissed in any subsequent document. I believe there had to be clear language dismissing the sovereign nature of each state, which cannot be done except by the people of that state. No American took that action
"The term sovereign refers to a person or entity that is completely independent and has supreme authority over their own affairs. In the context of governments, it means having full power and authority to govern without any external interference or influence."
A lot to be found in it and to instill deeper digging.
I would recommend to everyone to read very carefully:" A people history of the United States". By Howard Zinn. Knowing owns nation's history in depth is a must and particularly in such a political climate warming.
Great article. This is very important. However, your point and suggestion of a peaceful secession is perhaps missing a few key considerations. For one, it wasn’t that the southern states in 1860 and 1861 were initially violent secessions. Initially they were peaceful. It was the federal government that raised an army to compel them back into the Union.
Along those same lines, no matter how peacefully-intended a state (or states) were to secede today, the idea that the federal government — with all its agencies and might — wouldn’t fight and make it violent, is perhaps naive. The amount of economic power alone that would be lost from a state like Texas or Florida seceding would be a huge blow to a heavily indebted, bloated United States.
In short, I think it’s wishful to assume that because a state may have a valid constitutional argument, and proceeds in a peaceful, legal manner, that the federal government will simply allow that to happen.
And one final thought: as beneficial as secession appears to many states in this current age, the risk of foreign influence and even invasion to one of the smaller states or regions is very real threat — even likelihood — in the months or years after a hypothetical secession. The same reason that the founders also argued for a unified nation, for military deterrence. This cannot be underestimated.
Thank you, Pioneer. You inspired me to add a point I'd considered including:
The determination of whether a secession is peaceful or not is ultimately in the hands of the incumbent central government, and not those who seek to leave its control.
"It was the federal government that raised an army to compel them back into the Union ". The main reason for the Civil war was that Lincoln and friends wanted absolutely to install a powerful centralized authority to rule over the country as it was and expected to evolve into. The arguments about slavery came way later and were nothing more than a mean, amongst others , to gather more support. It was nothing else than a power grab.
People who haven’t actually read the constitution and believing the federal govt should be “fixing” every little “problem” they have are the ones so enraptured with these elections. The Dems making abortion a central issue should go back and kick themselves in the ass for not making it a federal law when having the presidency and both chambers of congress ( which has happened numerous times since Roe by the way). The Supreme Court WAS NEVER supposed to be a legislative branch of govt. When the Roe decision came down people should have known the day would come when it could be reversed but no they figured now it was some law but that was never the case and now it’s up to the states which many many day to day things that effect those citizens in those states. That’s how it was always supposed to be but since we have taken civics out of schools and have been force fed this Marxist orthodoxy through the teachers and their union leadership every looks for the federal govt to cure what ails them. The constitution wasn’t written for this but nobody knows because nobody has taken and hour to actually read the damn thing let alone understand it or go even further and read the federalist papers on the thinking of how to write it and establish our great country and what they fretted over. If Trump doesn’t win this next election we are fucked and might as well kiss this country goodbye because the idea of term limits on the Supreme Court while the senate and house dont is a frightening idea for me. Packing the court is an even worse outcome. If I was elected the first order is eliminate every illegal 3/4 letter agency which was never created by Congress. Term limits for congress then get back to what the forefathers really meant in our constitution. It’s doesn’t take a genius to understand the document. It was written so each and every man and woman could understand it then and now. Our country has been great before and we need for that to happen again. This bullshit needs to stop.
Secession is easy. I did it after Ron Paul ran for president . The only state involved is your state of mind. And sure I have to pay taxes but I work to minimalist them and I consider the taxes extortion by violent criminals.
And I defibetly would never vote in a federal election.
Secede in your mind. The rest will follow
I believe that Congress and parties and campaign contributions should be eliminated. All State Legislatures should meet several times per year to pass Federal Legislation. Legislators seeking to engage the Nation in any war should be brought into Court for a capital offense. Current Federal Law should all be reconsidered by the new Legislature system.
It's my understanding that Jefferson Davis was a US Senator at the time the Southern states seceeded. Congress said that they would arrest any Congressman from those states. He stayed because he wanted to be arrested so he could take the issue before the court. They refused to arrest him. After the war he was arrested but they refused to bring him to trial. Again he wanted the issue of secession brought before the courts and he was never given the opportunity.
Great article. Overlooked is the movement in Oregon for the eastern part of the state to join Idaho. IMO stronger regional associations and less federal intervention is the way to go. Imagine if we were peace rather than war and corruption oriented what we could do with our resources!
It is well past time for peaceful secession! Don't get hoodwinked into firing a shot, like Lincoln did with the South, but fight it peacefully in the courts. The argument for secession is airtight: EVERYTHING the founders said and wrote during the ratification period supports the right of free and independent States to secede from their voluntary Union.
We are already in the midst of an uncivil war. The conflict shouldn’t be about who runs the government, but whether we have a government at all.
I would subscribe to any secession newsletter
I would like to suggest a better poll (map) to cite. A better-ranked pollster asked the secession question in 5 different ways and the “peacefully secede” question was very revealing. It shows that a lot of people answer “no” to secession questions because they think it means firing on Ft. Sumter. But they’re happy to say YES to a “peacefully secede” question. This better pollster, SurveyUSA, polled each of 8 states separately, so they have a statistically significant number in each of the states, unlike YouGov. YouGov’s poll is not as good because they weight and balance across the whole country, so there could be too many Dems polled in Louisiana, for example.
Texas regular voters are 66% in favor of Texas independence, Louisiana 50% in favor of Louisiana independence, and only 7% of Americans think fedgov should attack a seceding state:
https://redstatesecession.org/poll-proves-texas-independence-is-the-only-path-for-american-conservatives
Great link.
We'd be better off if we still used the Bellamy salute when pledging allegiance to a flag never ratified by Congress.
One more item, there was no American Revolution. It was a war for Independence!!
The independence was declared. A revolution was required to prove it existed.
If it were a revolution it would have taken place in England. A revolt to dispose the government as in Russia, France and countless countries in South America.
To say revolution is like saying capitalism when you should say free enterprise.
Capitalism and revolution fit the liberal/socialist agenda. Why buy into it? You're either part of it or just ignorant.
The 13 colonies were part of the English territory and government system ruled by a monarch. You are seeing the 13 colonies as a separate nation. Not at that time. it was a revolution
Only thing settled with the 'war of northern aggression' was the a country of 30 million with unlimited recourses and material could crush a country of 10 million with extremely limited resources and materials.
While setting a record of being the war in which the most Americans died.
Anyone should be able to secede from a government they deem as tyrannical.
Most Americans wouldn't recognize tyranny if it bit them on the butt.
Great article. Thank you. The words "sovereign" and independent" were used to describe the 13 colonies in the Paris Peace treaty with Great Britain, the sole superpower of that time. These terms were also used in the Articles of Confederation. They were never dismissed or replaced.
The 13 colonies were subjects to the British crown who remains the titular head of the Church of England, thereby deriving its power from God. They had no right to secede, yet they did.
The Confederacy was a union of American States whose denizens were citizens of the United States, who had all the rights to leave the Union as stated in the Declaration. This should never be forgotten.
.
I would say that one of the reasons why the founding fathers clearly stated that a state can leave the Union is to avoid a war since it is natural for the power of that union to resist separation by using force if necessary.
The American revolution was based on English law and the common law going back to the Magna Carta. If the words of the founding fathers are heeded a separation can be done legally avoiding the conflict that normally results from such acts
"The words 'sovereign' and 'independent' were used to describe the 13 colonies in the Paris Peace treaty with Great Britain, the sole superpower of that time."
Excellent point, Rohan. In one of the hyperlinked videos in the article, Tom Woods emphasizes this, saying, "When the British acknowledged the independence of the colonies, which were then states, it acknowledged not the independence of 'the United States' as a single blob, but as a group of states which they listed one by one." https://youtu.be/IXOEdvfMeIY?feature=shared&t=1324
Brian
thanks for e video. I am now looking at it. Glad to know that the Paris Peace treaty is an issue. I discovered this by reading the treaty while debating a commenter over the civil war.
Thank you. England was the superpower and its recognition of the states as "sovereign" was reflected in the Articles of Confederation. The meaning of "sovereign" was never challenged or dismissed in any subsequent document. I believe there had to be clear language dismissing the sovereign nature of each state, which cannot be done except by the people of that state. No American took that action
"The term sovereign refers to a person or entity that is completely independent and has supreme authority over their own affairs. In the context of governments, it means having full power and authority to govern without any external interference or influence."
Thank you for this excellent writing.
A lot to be found in it and to instill deeper digging.
I would recommend to everyone to read very carefully:" A people history of the United States". By Howard Zinn. Knowing owns nation's history in depth is a must and particularly in such a political climate warming.
Great article. This is very important. However, your point and suggestion of a peaceful secession is perhaps missing a few key considerations. For one, it wasn’t that the southern states in 1860 and 1861 were initially violent secessions. Initially they were peaceful. It was the federal government that raised an army to compel them back into the Union.
Along those same lines, no matter how peacefully-intended a state (or states) were to secede today, the idea that the federal government — with all its agencies and might — wouldn’t fight and make it violent, is perhaps naive. The amount of economic power alone that would be lost from a state like Texas or Florida seceding would be a huge blow to a heavily indebted, bloated United States.
In short, I think it’s wishful to assume that because a state may have a valid constitutional argument, and proceeds in a peaceful, legal manner, that the federal government will simply allow that to happen.
And one final thought: as beneficial as secession appears to many states in this current age, the risk of foreign influence and even invasion to one of the smaller states or regions is very real threat — even likelihood — in the months or years after a hypothetical secession. The same reason that the founders also argued for a unified nation, for military deterrence. This cannot be underestimated.
Thank you, Pioneer. You inspired me to add a point I'd considered including:
The determination of whether a secession is peaceful or not is ultimately in the hands of the incumbent central government, and not those who seek to leave its control.
Texas is still the only state in the union with a lawful secession provision written into its statehood agreement, and it is currently in progress.
"It was the federal government that raised an army to compel them back into the Union ". The main reason for the Civil war was that Lincoln and friends wanted absolutely to install a powerful centralized authority to rule over the country as it was and expected to evolve into. The arguments about slavery came way later and were nothing more than a mean, amongst others , to gather more support. It was nothing else than a power grab.
People who haven’t actually read the constitution and believing the federal govt should be “fixing” every little “problem” they have are the ones so enraptured with these elections. The Dems making abortion a central issue should go back and kick themselves in the ass for not making it a federal law when having the presidency and both chambers of congress ( which has happened numerous times since Roe by the way). The Supreme Court WAS NEVER supposed to be a legislative branch of govt. When the Roe decision came down people should have known the day would come when it could be reversed but no they figured now it was some law but that was never the case and now it’s up to the states which many many day to day things that effect those citizens in those states. That’s how it was always supposed to be but since we have taken civics out of schools and have been force fed this Marxist orthodoxy through the teachers and their union leadership every looks for the federal govt to cure what ails them. The constitution wasn’t written for this but nobody knows because nobody has taken and hour to actually read the damn thing let alone understand it or go even further and read the federalist papers on the thinking of how to write it and establish our great country and what they fretted over. If Trump doesn’t win this next election we are fucked and might as well kiss this country goodbye because the idea of term limits on the Supreme Court while the senate and house dont is a frightening idea for me. Packing the court is an even worse outcome. If I was elected the first order is eliminate every illegal 3/4 letter agency which was never created by Congress. Term limits for congress then get back to what the forefathers really meant in our constitution. It’s doesn’t take a genius to understand the document. It was written so each and every man and woman could understand it then and now. Our country has been great before and we need for that to happen again. This bullshit needs to stop.